Curse

Xonic · Aug 11, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Shayul: Yes, mesmers and rangers can kill protective monks. Noones said anything else.

The point here isn't that protective monks are overpowered in PvP, but that warriors & monks can not counter them at all. Considering how underpowered in general warriors are, they could really need a "remove enchantment" skill.

Respeccing to W/Me or W/R? Yeah, sure. But in random arenas most people use their PvE character, so respeccing is a hassle.

Balanced team? Yeah, that's a good idea. Why don't you explain to me how to make sure the team is balanced in random arenas?

if warriors gets remove enchantment skills, what's the point of having mesmers and rangers professions? (just for the sake of arguement)

it's not the game's fault that somebody's PvE character can't kill every other profession with ease.

make a team before going in so one doesn't get randomly assigned? or join enough random teams and eventually one will be in an uber built team? it's random... it's not the game's fault that there are only 17 people joinning and they are all w/mo's

Mhydrian · Aug 11, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

As a ranger an invinci monk is not easy to take down by any means, spamming Dbil shot and trying to time interrupts on a monk is not easy buisness. You have to pack spirits to really come close to taking on a build like this. And maybe 1 out of 5 matches will be a retarded monk build...so you got that covered IF it ever happens,,,but wait what if a frag mesmer comes along first...or any other of the cookie cutter builds?

seshin · Aug 11, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Unfortunately there's no "change to necro" skill available.

yes there is

Quebec Osti · Aug 11, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Rend enchant
strip enchant
shatter enchant
drain enchant
inspired enchant
nature renewal
lingering curse
conjure phantasm
poison
bleeding
life syphon
any other DoT
energy drain
energy tap
ether lord
panic
debilitating shot
energy burn
soul barbs
desecrate enchantments
many others...

all counters to that "invincible 105hp monk build".... overpowered?? lol...

Shayul · Aug 12, 2005, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Shayul: Yes, mesmers and rangers can kill protective monks. Noones said anything else.

The point here isn't that protective monks are overpowered in PvP, but that warriors & monks can not counter them at all. Considering how underpowered in general warriors are, they could really need a "remove enchantment" skill.

Respeccing to W/Me or W/R? Yeah, sure. But in random arenas most people use their PvE character, so respeccing is a hassle.

Balanced team? Yeah, that's a good idea. Why don't you explain to me how to make sure the team is balanced in random arenas?

And by all means feel free to try to kill a 105 monk with bleeding, distracting blow, and savage slash. Good luck.

Oh God. You might run into an "invinci" Monk in a random arena. Since the arena is, as in nature of its name, random, that means that you have a chance to get 3 other teammates who pack some of the considerable amount of skills that stop an "invinci" Monk. Even if you do lose, the chances that the monk will get shot down later keep on increasing. This is hardly a broken build in PvP.

Well, for one, I had assumed (by your description of the situation), that there was more than one Warrior attacking. So if each Warrior packs skills like those, there is an increased chance the monk will fall to the Warriors (just like if I aggro too many ataxes with my build, I eventually succumb). Oh noes! Warriors don't have a "remove enchantment" skill! Imagine that...a non-caster class without a skill such as that! Man...just thinking about that injustice reminds me of how Mages couldn't wear Plate Armor in D&D, or how a pure Fighter class with no mage secondary couldn't cast Delayed Blast Fireball. I mean, come on! There are so many spellcasters that the Fighter needs to defend himself somehow!

Finally, the Monk. In essence, the Cleric. The one who heals, resurrects, protects, and smites. I don't see how, in any of those job descriptions, the Monk would ever receive a "remove enchantment" skill. The Monk rids the team of the unclean, not of the beneficial. In fact, the closest thing they have is "Contemplation of Purity," which causes them to lose all enchantments in exchange for health gain, hex removal, and condition removal.

Oh, thanks for listing some skills that I didn't, Quebec. I got tired when I was putting my list together. =P

Addition: Unless the other classes are /Mos, they can't heal nearly as well as a Monk. Does that mean that each class should get more powerful healing abilities? Oh yeah, and Necros can tear "invinci" Monks apart. You forgot to add that class.

Mitsu Bishi · Aug 12, 2005, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

... it's not the game's fault that there are only 17 people joinning and they are all w/mo's

That's the main problem IMO. W/Mo's are so plenty, you're almost guaranteed of getting one in your group. That's why some people bring those "invincible" monks, because you know you're going to be up against lots of warriors. And warriors are exactly the kind of opponent you want to have as such a monk.

If people starting the game would think further than "oh warrior has to be the Ub3r damage dealer" and "monk can heal so as a w/mo I'm going to be TEH GOD" we would have more diversity and less complaints.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 12, 2005, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Just one last reply:
1) In PvE W/Mo's and Mo/W's and E/Mo's are extremely common because monks have healing, rez, and are the best tanks in PvE, elementalists have top firepower and energy, and warriors have sprint and bonettis defence. It is not hard to get in a random team of four with just those types of players. People don't respec to mesmer or ranger to play a couple of rounds of random arena.
2) Three lvl 20 W/Mo's were completely unable to kill one defensive monk. Really.
3) OK, monks shouldn't have enchant breaking, I agree. So give it to warriors. Make it a sword or axe skill, they're way underpowered anyway.

Anomaly · Aug 12, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quebec Osti

Rend enchant
strip enchant
shatter enchant
drain enchant
inspired enchant
nature renewal
lingering curse
conjure phantasm
poison
bleeding
life syphon
any other DoT
energy drain
energy tap
ether lord
panic
debilitating shot
energy burn
soul barbs
desecrate enchantments
many others...

all counters to that "invincible 105hp monk build".... overpowered?? lol...

Careful. You're stating the obvious. They may catch on.

delfin42 · Aug 12, 2005, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Just one last reply:
2) Three lvl 20 W/Mo's were completely unable to kill one defensive monk. Really.
3) OK, monks shouldn't have enchant breaking, I agree. So give it to warriors. Make it a sword or axe skill, they're way underpowered anyway.

2) You persist in being surprised by this for some reason. Ever fought a PvE Mursaat Monk boss with a full team without a Mesmer or interrupter?

3) Warriors _have_ ways to shut down enchantments -- just not enchantments that have already been cast.

Sword: Savage Slash interrupts.
Axe: Disrupting Chop interrupts.
Hammer: Dwarven Battle Stance (Elite) interrupts.
General: Distracting Blow interrupts. Skull Crack (Elite) causes Dazed, which makes interrupts easy.

Then figure in the Warrior's assorted knockdown attacks; a Monk can't cast many heals from flat on his back.

Didn't bring any of those skills? Bad luck or bad planning. Enjoy the trip back to the Competition Arenas lobby.

kalaris · Aug 12, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Just one last reply:
1) In PvE W/Mo's and Mo/W's and E/Mo's are extremely common because monks have healing, rez, and are the best tanks in PvE, elementalists have top firepower and energy, and warriors have sprint and bonettis defence. It is not hard to get in a random team of four with just those types of players. People don't respec to mesmer or ranger to play a couple of rounds of random arena.
2) Three lvl 20 W/Mo's were completely unable to kill one defensive monk. Really.
3) OK, monks shouldn't have enchant breaking, I agree. So give it to warriors. Make it a sword or axe skill, they're way underpowered anyway.

#1) Stop playing in Lion's Arch Random Arena's -- problem solved.

As most people have said, you will get at least 1 w/mo in every LA match, I bring my W/N sometimes just to kill all the W/Mo and teach them it doesn't pay to be cookie cutter

LA's Arena's are not any true measure of skill, matter of fact, anyone who spends hours upon hours there are just going to become lame pvpers who get destroyed in GvG and HoH, since there is no real strategy, or skill and everyone only depends on themselves.

I love when these incinvi monks get 10 wins and go to draknor's forge 4v4 with orginized teams...

Oh I AM GONNA BE INVINCI....oh crap...rend...defile flesh... Dismember... dead. --- Next?

#2) Monks aren't the only offenders, I've even seen a W/Mo do this, I was testing a new build in the Arena before bringing it to GvG, after I made sure the build worked, I decided to stick around with my team... next match we had a fight vs a w/mo who did much the same thing, I didn't bring a Natures renewal or anything because other parts of my team (in the GvG) were supposed to, I wanted to see how all the skills jived together...

Well a W/Mo, a R/N, a N/Me, and a Mo/W were all unable to kill this one warrior, nobody brought enough Degen, and nobody brought a disenchanting spell...

So W/Mo should be nerfed too?

#3 Well as it stands now 3 classes don't have any enchant breaking,

Again lets go over the list of classes that can do enchants/hex/conditions

Warriors
No Conditions, Hexes, or Enchants

Elementalists
No Conditions, Hexes, or Enchants

Monks
All Conditions and All Hexes (smite hex)

Necromancers
All Conditions (plague touch) and Enchants (lingering, rend,strip)

Memsers
All Hexes and Enchants

Rangers
only 3 conditons( Antidote signet) and Enchants/hexes in Natures renewal useful, but not spamable with only one ranger, unless using oathshot

So since warriors can't do anything, they should get Enchantment removal? yeah... Elementalists should too!

IF they gave warriors an enchant removal skill, it would need to be an elite to be balanced, and I don't know too many who'd give up their elite for that.

Not that I believe warriors should be given that option...

What would be nice is an attack that ignores the effects of all enchants on your target and all conditions, hexes, and Enchantments on you, give it a long cooldown, tie it to strength, and make it chew up all adrenaline.